Docz wrote:Considering BGs and AT til lv48, imho:

Code: Select all

LV, Sth, Pois, Wpn, DW, CS

lv19: -, 17, 15, 18, 3
lv24: -, 22, 21, 21, 4
lv29: -, 25, 23, 29, 6
lv35: -, 35, 24, 34, 6

------------- RESPEC DW -> CS
lv40: -, 35, 34, 6, 38

--------------AT ends at lv48 -
lv50:   37, 37, 50, 14, 44


Your poisons are a little high for leveling, you only need composite poison at level.

lvl19 = 14+4 poison
lvl24 = 19+5
lvl29 = 22+7
lvl35 = 27+8

Just to confirm: We get a free 1 line respec at 40 from the trainer? Been too long to remember if this is how it will be on this server and patch level.

Single respec on 20 and 40.

Excuse me for dropping in so late and disagree with everyone but here either i am missing somethign or you are all ^^
everyone is saying that Cs is better for solo and Dw for group, here are the usable Cs and Dw styles before lvl 40:

CS Styles:
anytime:
lvl18 Garrote: 0.75, High End
lvl25 Achilles Heel: 1.05 Med Endu

evade:
lvl12 Harmstring: 1.15, Low End
lvl29 Leaper: 1.35, Med endu

positional (side)
lvl8 Pincer: 0.9, Med End

DW Styles:
Evade:
lvl4 Twin Return: 0.90 Low End
lvl10 Orbit: 0.90 Med endu

positional (back)
lvl6 Shadow's Edge 0.65 med endu
lvl12 Eclipse 0.90 med endu

positional (side)
lvl29 Flank: 0.85 Med endu
lvl39 Shadow's Rain: 1.05 Med endu


SOLO:
Dw has basically no anytime (0.6 taunt or 0.45) and an evade combo you take very early (4 and 10) with good dmg (0.9x2) yet inferior to the Cs you take althoug much later (12 and 29)
You get the Cs anytime at level 18 and 25, so before that you ll be using the same anytime on both paths (sting) and after that Cs will be better, at a higher endurance cost as someone said, but endurance is never the problem for solo, you will be resting for health anyway, you just wanna kill stuff asap so you take less dmg.

1-25:
Seems to me that DW is "better" before 12 as you wont have evade on CS, but as some1else said before me, you have low evade chances at those levels anyway, not to mention they are super quick levels, no big deal. After 12 you have a single evade style on Cs vs a 2combo evade styles on DW, assuming you are using a 0.6 anytime you would have a 0.9+0.9 combo dmg on DW for each evade, and a 1.15 + 0.6 on CS. Total: 1.8 vs 1.75, same damage on evade and same dmg anytime. Endurance costs pretty equal.

From 25 and 29 you get your anytime and evade combo on CS making it superior compared to DW (they were equal up to this point)

Conclusion for SOLO: DW and CS Equal up until lvl 18, CS becomes quite a bit better after especially after 25 and 29

GROUP (POSITIONALS):

Before 29:
Pincer lvl8 vs back combo from DW (you get those styles at lvl 8, 6 and 10 so basically no difference here)
0.9 vs 0.65+0.9, Cs is just superior, Pincer does more dmg and takes same endurance of the 2 other styles (they all take 8% roughly)

After 29:
Flank: 0.85, same dmg as pincer and same endurance, CS and Dw become Equal. You take the mighty shadowrain at level 39, enjoy it for 1 level of insane dps

Conclusion for Group: Cs is better until 29, then they are even.

Everything i wrote is without considering the increased chance of swinging with the left weapon DW would give. On level 20 you d get 13% more chances, 20% more chances on lvl 31. Considering a flat 25% with the Cs spec this means that at lvl 35ish you would swing with the lefty twice as much (50%). Hard to say how much more dps this is gona give to you, a lot is gona depend from the dps on the lefty you will bw using, and especially its speed.

in the best case scenario you ll be using a 3.9 speed on main and a 2.4 on offhand, but this very unrealistic that anyone would keep it like this all the way while leveling first char with no golds whatsoever, so lets say 3.4 main and 2.8 off on average the dual swing haste effect would give you a 0.3 speed boost (from 3.4 to 3.1) thats 10% more dmg happening 25% more from level 35+, thats 2.5% more dmg in total, + the damage from the offhand, lets say 30% more dmg 25% of the time, another 7.5% more on average, for a total of 10% more dmg (only after lvl 35+, decreasing on lower levels), but this are very rough estimations.

I dont see this overwhelmigly Dw superiority, maybe after 20, due to the increased left swing, by a small margin, am i missing something?

Eddie wrote:Excuse me for dropping in so late and disagree with everyone but here either i am missing somethign or you are all ^^
everyone is saying that Cs is better for solo and Dw for group, here are the usable Cs and Dw styles before lvl 40:

CS Styles:
anytime:
lvl18 Garrote: 0.75, High End
lvl25 Achilles Heel: 1.05 Med Endu

evade:
lvl12 Harmstring: 1.15, Low End
lvl29 Leaper: 1.35, Med endu

positional (side)
lvl8 Pincer: 0.9, Med End

DW Styles:
Evade:
lvl4 Twin Return: 0.90 Low End
lvl10 Orbit: 0.90 Med endu

positional (back)
lvl6 Shadow's Edge 0.65 med endu
lvl12 Eclipse 0.90 med endu

positional (side)
lvl29 Flank: 0.85 Med endu
lvl39 Shadow's Rain: 1.05 Med endu


SOLO:
Dw has basically no anytime (0.6 taunt or 0.45) and an evade combo you take very early (4 and 10) with good dmg (0.9x2) yet inferior to the Cs you take althoug much later (12 and 29)
You get the Cs anytime at level 18 and 25, so before that you ll be using the same anytime on both paths (sting) and after that Cs will be better, at a higher endurance cost as someone said, but endurance is never the problem for solo, you will be resting for health anyway, you just wanna kill stuff asap so you take less dmg.

1-25:
Seems to me that DW is "better" before 12 as you wont have evade on CS, but as some1else said before me, you have low evade chances at those levels anyway, not to mention they are super quick levels, no big deal. After 12 you have a single evade style on Cs vs a 2combo evade styles on DW, assuming you are using a 0.6 anytime you would have a 0.9+0.9 combo dmg on DW for each evade, and a 1.15 + 0.6 on CS. Total: 1.8 vs 1.75, same damage on evade and same dmg anytime. Endurance costs pretty equal.

From 25 and 29 you get your anytime and evade combo on CS making it superior compared to DW (they were equal up to this point)

Conclusion for SOLO: DW and CS Equal up until lvl 18, CS becomes quite a bit better after especially after 25 and 29

GROUP (POSITIONALS):

Before 29:
Pincer lvl8 vs back combo from DW (you get those styles at lvl 8, 6 and 10 so basically no difference here)
0.9 vs 0.65+0.9, Cs is just superior, Pincer does more dmg and takes same endurance of the 2 other styles (they all take 8% roughly)

After 29:
Flank: 0.85, same dmg as pincer and same endurance, CS and Dw become Equal. You take the mighty shadowrain at level 39, enjoy it for 1 level of insane dps

Conclusion for Group: Cs is better until 29, then they are even.

Everything i wrote is without considering the increased chance of swinging with the left weapon DW would give. On level 20 you d get 13% more chances, 20% more chances on lvl 31. Considering a flat 25% with the Cs spec this means that at lvl 35ish you would swing with the lefty twice as much (50%). Hard to say how much more dps this is gona give to you, a lot is gona depend from the dps on the lefty you will bw using, and especially its speed.

in the best case scenario you ll be using a 3.9 speed on main and a 2.4 on offhand, but this very unrealistic that anyone would keep it like this all the way while leveling first char with no golds whatsoever, so lets say 3.4 main and 2.8 off on average the dual swing haste effect would give you a 0.3 speed boost (from 3.4 to 3.1) thats 10% more dmg happening 25% more from level 35+, thats 2.5% more dmg in total, + the damage from the offhand, lets say 30% more dmg 25% of the time, another 7.5% more on average, for a total of 10% more dmg (only after lvl 35+, decreasing on lower levels), but this are very rough estimations.

I dont see this overwhelmigly Dw superiority, maybe after 20, due to the increased left swing, by a small margin, am i missing something?

so considering your suggestion to train CS since the start, you can use the 40lv respec to move from slash (better for PvE) to thrust ?

i didnt suggest it, i was just wondering why everyone seemed to agree with DW being superior, but yeah, good point about slash.
I never thought of it but thrust is not that excellent in PvE especially in albion, so many skellies. I ll actually consider it myself, 1 less stat to cap too, and more Drops/OTDs, too bad Tusker would only last 4 levels. Problem with slash is the ****** anytime, no bonus to hit on taunt and low dps on uppercut, but the average bonus you get from resistance is prolly worth that loss, dunno

Docz wrote:Considering BGs and AT til lv48, imho:

Code: Select all

LV, Sth, Pois, Wpn, DW, CS

lv19: -, 17, 15, 18, 3
lv24: -, 22, 21, 21, 4
lv29: -, 25, 23, 29, 6
lv35: -, 35, 24, 34, 6

------------- RESPEC DW -> CS
lv40: -, 35, 34, 6, 38

--------------AT ends at lv48 -
lv50:   37, 37, 50, 14, 44


Yes you are right its the best way for infi !

Eddie wrote:i didnt suggest it, i was just wondering why everyone seemed to agree with DW being superior, but yeah, good point about slash.
I never thought of it but thrust is not that excellent in PvE especially in albion, so many skellies. I ll actually consider it myself, 1 less stat to cap too, and more Drops/OTDs, too bad Tusker would only last 4 levels. Problem with slash is the ****** anytime, no bonus to hit on taunt and low dps on uppercut, but the average bonus you get from resistance is prolly worth that loss, dunno

Because it increases offhand swing chance and as a result makes DW the best DPS for a solo and group. All of the testing I have done in the beta suggests DW is better than CS. But spec whatever, it all works.

You can also,while lvling, have: DW max, Thrust almost max (making it easier to achieve composite thrust per lvl) and use the top lvl poisons. Taking CS adds another line to spec into unless you neglect DW completely making you swing even less offhand.

Yeah, I think the issue is that while you did a good analysis on the openings/styles, the reduction in offhand swings could be a problem during the course of the fight.

The other problem is that most of the CS line requires stealth, and most infiltrators are auto-training stealth. It makes it harder to pull off.

As far as Autotraining, I suppose you could stop at 40 instead of 48 and skip the last 2. The difference is 1 less in DW (25 instead of 26), but the style is at 25 anyway. So, you'll have and ever so slightly less chance of dual swing, but you'll get to use more CS styles at 40.

Definitely try to keep envenom close to your level, DoT poisons help a lot, especially through lower levels.

At level 5 spec all envenom and you will drop mobs twice as fast.