How is this Friar spec?

Madae
Gryphon Knight
 
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Postby Madae » Jun 08, 2018 04:53

Thinking about doing this;

44 Staff
38 Enh
30 Parry
7 Rejuv

I guess I'm looking at more of a PvP end game thing, but I want to solo effectively, too. Missing out on the last tier of enhancement buffs doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, since it's just a small difference in buff pts. Will probably be duo'ing with a Mind specced Sorc, too, so I'm keeping that in mind for power drains on ineffective heals.

Spivo
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Postby Spivo » Jun 08, 2018 08:52

Madae wrote:Thinking about doing this;

44 Staff
38 Enh
30 Parry
7 Rejuv

I guess I'm looking at more of a PvP end game thing, but I want to solo effectively, too. Missing out on the last tier of enhancement buffs doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, since it's just a small difference in buff pts. Will probably be duo'ing with a Mind specced Sorc, too, so I'm keeping that in mind for power drains on ineffective heals.


44 staff, check
38 enh, bad you lose weaponskill, damage, parry/evade/casting speed, AF, fatigue reg. 44 staff means you want to use staff and not heal, making anything below 45 enh bad.
30 parry, sure... but why? Evade with dodger 3 is plenty, and you can build Mastery of Parry if you want to parry more.
7 rejuv, I tried 7 rejuv, and went back to 15 rejuv even solo it's better. You heal for more, and even in 1on1 you will often have a chance to heal. The lvl 15 rez is not crazy good, but for casters it helps them a lot.


I run 44 staff, 46 enh, 15 rejuv, 8 parry and it works both for solo/smallman and while I could never solo heal a target of multiple assist train, I heal enough for the group to notice a significant difference.
Drop enh to 45 and boost parry to 12, but
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Madae
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Postby Madae » Jun 08, 2018 15:22

Spivo wrote:
Madae wrote:Thinking about doing this;

44 Staff
38 Enh
30 Parry
7 Rejuv

I guess I'm looking at more of a PvP end game thing, but I want to solo effectively, too. Missing out on the last tier of enhancement buffs doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, since it's just a small difference in buff pts. Will probably be duo'ing with a Mind specced Sorc, too, so I'm keeping that in mind for power drains on ineffective heals.


44 staff, check
38 enh, bad you lose weaponskill, damage, parry/evade/casting speed, AF, fatigue reg. 44 staff means you want to use staff and not heal, making anything below 45 enh bad.
30 parry, sure... but why? Evade with dodger 3 is plenty, and you can build Mastery of Parry if you want to parry more.
7 rejuv, I tried 7 rejuv, and went back to 15 rejuv even solo it's better. You heal for more, and even in 1on1 you will often have a chance to heal. The lvl 15 rez is not crazy good, but for casters it helps them a lot.


I run 44 staff, 46 enh, 15 rejuv, 8 parry and it works both for solo/smallman and while I could never solo heal a target of multiple assist train, I heal enough for the group to notice a significant difference.
Drop enh to 45 and boost parry to 12, but


12 AF and 12 dex/qui makes that much of a difference? I assumed the loss would be minimal, but perhaps a spreadsheet wizard could maybe show me how missing the last level of all the buffs makes such a big difference that it would be folly to not do it? The attack speed buff doesn't impress me since it's an every 3 minute thing and only a 6% difference. It's the same deal with fatigue regen/reduction (20% vs 25%).

I was also looking at this spec;

50 Staff
38 Enh
13 Parry
15 Rejuv

Bonus points for using every skill point available, too...

I guess I get that there is a "go-to" spec for a lot of classes after years of playing, but I just don't see why it matters as much as it seems to. I would think it could be made up with items and such for the most part.

Ownnyn
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Postby Ownnyn » Jun 08, 2018 15:49

Your also losing 5% abs

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Madae
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Postby Madae » Jun 08, 2018 16:12

Ownnyn wrote:Your also losing 5% abs

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Yeah, but, that's 50 of 1000. How often do fights really come down to the wire like that for Friars? They're supposed to be really good at solo'ing and some pvp, yes? Again, I would assume you're coming out well ahead of "almost dying" in most situations, and then I'm looking at situations that can't be helped, like getting jumped and immediately reduced to 50% life by a stealther or something, where you're already at a big disadvantage... but then that's where maybe heals and parry come in to save you?

I'm not trying to be combative here, I want your guys opinions on this, but I'm still not sold on the very small differences in numbers here. Maybe if I saw some comparisons I could be more easily convinced. I'm sure someone has crunched this to death and seen the ultimate return on investment. Like, how much does 238 vs 250 dex, or quick, or anything, really matter? 200 AF vs 212 AF? In what situation will I be missing this deceptively minimal difference? And what about on the other side? What does 50 Staff give me over 44 (other than the style)? 30 Parry over 7 or 13? Might be good to know the cap and diminishing return thresholds, too.

Might be worth pointing out too that while I'm not that much of a min-maxer and don't really expect to be "the best" on the server at anything, this kind of thing does bother me, especially since this game is somewhat "in depth" when it comes to certain things, and that the devs here are a bit on the frustrating side when it comes to certain "issues"... like the reason why I quit playing my Merc because I didn't know that you autotrain and now I'm missing the whatever-amount of points in slash and will never get them back, in which case I wouldn't have leveled all the way to 48 in slash if I had known that. It might not be a huge issue to some, or even me since I could, theoretically, just do thrust instead, which did autotrain, but it still bothers me on a fundamental level - it's always going to be in the back of my mind as a mistake that could have been prevented. It helps to have some experience with the whole system altogether.

Spivo
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Postby Spivo » Jun 08, 2018 17:10

Did not read all...

But 2 things:

1) The delve of buffs and your actual value is NOT the same. The 45 enh is 75 dex/qui or more... forget. High enh increases the buffs.

2) What is your plan with your spec? A friar is a great/fun class, but you need a plan with your spec for you to have success.
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Ownnyn
Eagle Knight
 
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Postby Ownnyn » Jun 08, 2018 17:23

Its not 12 dex, because u have a bonus for higher enh.

Also remember parry is dex based, and evade i believe is both dex and quick based, so losing 20pts dex/quick is a big deal.

Also your weapon dmg is dex based.

So running yellow vs red spec buffs....

Your evade drops, parry drops, af drops, abs drops, dps drops, cast speed drops, attack speed with quickness and haste buff drops....

And you get

30/4= 7.5% chance to parry?

Not worth the trade off

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Aelred
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Postby Aelred » Jun 08, 2018 17:24

The actual value for the D/Q buffs is 71 (lvl 35), and 86 (lvl 45), so it is a difference of 15 points. Keep in mind, Madae, how important dexterity is for the Friar. It is 100% of your Weaponskill (hit chance and damage), it improves your Parry and Evade, and it improves your cast speed (would make a difference of 0.75% in this case :-P).

Between the extra stats, absorb, and fatigue buffs, I would say 45 Enhance is the better way to go. While having that high Parry is nice, you don't have a reactionary style for it. Improving your evade by adding +15 Dex and +15 Qui will (in addition to the higher weaponskill and swing speed) increase the amount of Evade reactionary styles you can pull off, increasing your damage further.

Madae
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Postby Madae » Jun 08, 2018 17:40

Interesting. What about the 50 Staff spec? Still low on enhance, but what is the parry attack worth overall? Especially since it's the only parry attack you get.

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Aelred
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Postby Aelred » Jun 08, 2018 17:47

I believe the consensus is that 50 Staff is never worth it, regardless of what playstyle you are going for. If you looks at the stats for various styles, you'll see that the lvl 21 evade-reactionary is actually better than the lvl 50 parry-reactionary (better damage, better end cost, has a snare effect, but slightly low to-hit bonus).

Spivo
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Postby Spivo » Jun 08, 2018 17:47

I don't think it's worth it.

I think the main question as a friar is how to balance staff and rejuv.
Enh should be at 45-48.
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Madae
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Joined: Jul 30, 2016 10:09

Postby Madae » Jun 08, 2018 17:57

What about the bonuses to staff? 50 +11, or whatever the cap is vs 44 +whatever. What difference does that make?

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Aelred
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Postby Aelred » Jun 08, 2018 18:16

It will certainly increase your damage and hit chance to make up for the 15 Dex you miss out on. However, I don't think that would make up for the loss in other aspects of your character.

If you wanted to try a spec like 50 Staff, 38 Enhance, 18 Parry, 7 Rejuv, I'm sure you could find success, but I wouldn't consider it "min-maxing". Overall, I agree with Spivo's comment above.

Spivo
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Location: Denmark

Postby Spivo » Jun 08, 2018 18:17

Madae wrote:What about the bonuses to staff? 50 +11, or whatever the cap is vs 44 +whatever. What difference does that make?


You will hit more and for more, but at a to high cost. I would go 50 if we got some amazing style at 50, which we dont and so 44 is best.
I might complain and I don't play anymore, but I never forget the impact Uthgard had on me reminiscing DaoC and how much work the staff put in to it.
It remains a masterpiece, but stuck in time.

Madae
Gryphon Knight
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Jul 30, 2016 10:09

Postby Madae » Jun 08, 2018 18:20

Cool, thanks for the information guys. It was a real help.

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