tri-spec post 40, rvr&pve viable specs?

Sorth
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Postby Sorth » Jan 25, 2017 20:15

Hey all,

I jumped on the cabalist bandwagon and am currently level 11 and full matter. After reading everyone's thoughts in these posts, I think I'm wanting to try full Spirit from 20-40. Currently, the kiting, timing on controlling pet and casting my DOTs, and then time needed to spam pet-kill-for-mana or sitting for the matter spec is doable, but a much more active playstyle than I would like for a PVE toon.

For my level 50 spec, I'm planning on:
32 Matter / 28 Body / 33 Spirit

I'm a bit conflicted about going full matter for farming / PLing as I hate having PVE-only characters. I'm wondering how this tri-spec would do in PVE. If it means an easier playstyle (just send in the pet and cast a DOT and heal maybe? Or would this spec require lots of debuffing and nuking?) and if it's RVR viable (Is the tri-spec still considering great utility in this patch?) then that's what I want to do. Is there maybe a better PVE spec that can also RVR (that isn't 46 matter?). How would the 46 Spirit / 28 Body spec do in PVE/RVR at this patch set?

If the spirit spec or tri-spec is viable as a farmer / PLer, I'd need to look for higher level single spawns as opposed to lower group spawns (like the pygma's or w/e) right?

Sorry for all the dyslexic questions. I haven't played this game since like 2005.
Uthgard 2.0: Andizlack / Spa
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dipndots
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Postby dipndots » Jan 25, 2017 23:35

the best bang for your buck as a pve cabalist is high matter spec. there's no way around that. it has the tools you need for those big aoe pulls that make cabbies a great farming/pl class.

you CAN use a lower level focus shield and aoe dot, but it won't kill as fast, which means two things. 1) it takes longer to kill mobs, meaning it takes longer to farm/pl. and 2) killing slower means more heals cast from your cleric per pull, which means more down time, which means it takes longer to farm/pl. that may not be a big deal for you, but if you want to do efficient aoe pulls as a cabby then you need high matter.

unfortunately, there isn't a cabby spec that uses high matter and is good for rvr, and there isn't a cabby spec that keeps matter low and is good for pve. you have to choose (or farm a bunch of respec stones).

furthermore, i would strongly recommend staying matter until 40.

also, about it being too active a play style: cabalist pve is really straightforward and you should only have to cast 2-3 spells ever, even if you're doing an aoe pull.

if you're solo and below level 19 all your pulls should still look like this, more or less:

attack with ruby pet at max range, run to the side a bit, cast both dots, kite if you have to. rinse and repeat.

if you're solo and ABOVE level 19 (aka you have the aoe dot) then it's even easier:

send in pet to round up mobs, start casting your aoe dot when your pet is about to die, pet dies and you kite the dotted mobs, recast aoe dot if it runs out and stuff isn't dead, summon new pet, collect loot, rinse and repeat.

if you're with a cleric at any level, it's the easiest:

send in fully buffed pet with focus shield on. collect loot once everything is dead. rinse and repeat.

oh and one last thing. for cycling pets, make sure you have a staff with spirit focus on it (not spirit skill. spirit focus), and use ONLY the amber pet to cycle for mana. if you can't find one with a decent level of focus, there's a staff merchant by the cabalist trainer in camelot that sells focus staves.

i think that's pretty much it.

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relvinian
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Postby relvinian » Jan 26, 2017 23:45

Sorth wrote:Hey all,

I jumped on the cabalist bandwagon and am currently level 11 and full matter. After reading everyone's thoughts in these posts, I think I'm wanting to try full Spirit from 20-40. Currently, the kiting, timing on controlling pet and casting my DOTs, and then time needed to spam pet-kill-for-mana or sitting for the matter spec is doable, but a much more active playstyle than I would like for a PVE toon.

For my level 50 spec, I'm planning on:
32 Matter / 28 Body / 33 Spirit

I'm a bit conflicted about going full matter for farming / PLing as I hate having PVE-only characters. I'm wondering how this tri-spec would do in PVE. If it means an easier playstyle (just send in the pet and cast a DOT and heal maybe? Or would this spec require lots of debuffing and nuking?) and if it's RVR viable (Is the tri-spec still considering great utility in this patch?) then that's what I want to do. Is there maybe a better PVE spec that can also RVR (that isn't 46 matter?). How would the 46 Spirit / 28 Body spec do in PVE/RVR at this patch set?

If the spirit spec or tri-spec is viable as a farmer / PLer, I'd need to look for higher level single spawns as opposed to lower group spawns (like the pygma's or w/e) right?

Sorry for all the dyslexic questions. I haven't played this game since like 2005.


I have leveled to 39 so far as full spirit. It is slow but safe. I have played cab many years and usually pve or accidently in pvp.

The classic matter cab is 46 matter 28 body and 4 spirit for pet recycle.

The classic spirit cab is 46 spirit 28 body and who cares about the matter or some go 46 spirit 25 body 13 matter for the ns.

The first can aoe disease and aoe dot and has horrible nearsight.

The second can have an extremely tough pet that runs like a deer and can debuff body 50% for 15 seconds.

Another interesting spec is 41/35 split.

41 spirit 35 body gets you the aoe snare at 38 and the aoe disease at 34 and the 30% body debuff the pet buffs and pet speed buff and very little variance on the body nuke and you can throw the 35 spec nuke to get your hits back quick if they go low in addition to the 50 base lifetap for more dmg.

35 spirit 41 matter is a decent pve spec because you can be lazy with your pet (Sapphire) and you can also buff that pet pretty well and throw down the lvl 40 focus shield. 35 speed buff aoe snare and purple night sight are not inconsequential.

Tri spec is like a jack of all trades and master of none, the main thing you get is the 25 nearsight and im not sure that is worth it.

But your spells will still land. player vs player on yellow spells at 50 are resisted 12% of the time and a lvl 33 spell will be resisted maybe 20%. It's not that big a deal.

Another weird one would be like 38 spirit 38 body its weird but you could have the aoe snare the aoe disease a tough pet and strong nukes not sure but i prefer several other specs more.

This actual spec 32 matter 33 spirit 28 body has decent pet with dmg shield for pve and debuff disease nightsight for rvr. It is ok.

Long response and im well known to be an idiot.

Cheers
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Sorth
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Postby Sorth » Jan 27, 2017 23:37

Well I've heard from both of you basically what I wanted to hear, that the tri-spec is still PVE viable but just not as good. I'm completely ok with that, as I mentioned, so I'll have to figure out what I want to do with that information. I have gotten the cab to 20 with 3 spirit / 19 matter, so I got to dabble with pulling 3-6 mobs at a time. It's fun and very fast xp, but as I also mentioned in my first post, I think I'd prefer a less involved way to farm mobs. That way I can zone out on a podcast or youtube video or something while PVEing instead of wiping if there's a little lag or if I screw up somehow.

Thanks a lot for your input guys.
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Sorth
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Postby Sorth » Jan 28, 2017 01:04

Before I forget, relvinian, I wanted to say thanks for posting in that other thread where you could farm some Cabalist staves. The Grove Nymph one dropped for me after about the 10th kill and I noticed a pretty big difference in the pet-kill-for-power spell after I got it.

On that note, I was wondering if you could post some information on your experiences leveling with a spirit cabalist. Namely, I'd love it if you could answer the following:

Can the pet chain pull, and if so, approximately what cons at what levels?
Can the pet take 2-3 at a time with light heals?
Which pet did you have the most success with? I'm assuming I'll be doing the sapphire as the lifetap proc gives me the most security in sending the pet into kill and looking away for 20 seconds or so.
Lastly, if you could give a short breakdown on places you recommend to level with this spec solo, I would super appreciate it. I'm a bit worried about trying the AE DOT spec as the cramped spawns sound like a nightmare.
If I did pull the trigger on full spirit spec from 20-40, how would you move into the tri-spec I'm planning at level 40 (again, that's 32 matter / 28 body / 33 spirit)? I'm assuming the best bet would be to leave spirit at my end spec goal, put everything into matter, and then work on 28 body last... but again, this is my first cabalist, so it's all quite new and strange to me :)

Sorry this post got a little long winded again.
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relvinian
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Postby relvinian » Jan 28, 2017 18:57

Sorth wrote:Before I forget, relvinian, I wanted to say thanks for posting in that other thread where you could farm some Cabalist staves. The Grove Nymph one dropped for me after about the 10th kill and I noticed a pretty big difference in the pet-kill-for-power spell after I got it.

On that note, I was wondering if you could post some information on your experiences leveling with a spirit cabalist. Namely, I'd love it if you could answer the following:

Can the pet chain pull, and if so, approximately what cons at what levels?
Can the pet take 2-3 at a time with light heals?
Which pet did you have the most success with? I'm assuming I'll be doing the sapphire as the lifetap proc gives me the most security in sending the pet into kill and looking away for 20 seconds or so.
Lastly, if you could give a short breakdown on places you recommend to level with this spec solo, I would super appreciate it. I'm a bit worried about trying the AE DOT spec as the cramped spawns sound like a nightmare.
If I did pull the trigger on full spirit spec from 20-40, how would you move into the tri-spec I'm planning at level 40 (again, that's 32 matter / 28 body / 33 spirit)? I'm assuming the best bet would be to leave spirit at my end spec goal, put everything into matter, and then work on 28 body last... but again, this is my first cabalist, so it's all quite new and strange to me :)

Sorry this post got a little long winded again.


I'm 40 now and with my /played should be 50 easy.

I kill tasked to 20 and went back and forth from cornwall to lyn barfog to keltoi etc until i was like 30.

From 30-40 i pretty much camped catacombs dungeon in cordova and i think i will stay here until 41.

I can pull 4 blues and a few more greens at 40 with my sapphire pet and more or less watch it kill them. Compared to matter cab my xp is a joke. But i can also kill yellows pretty easy and even oranges but oranges and reds are power intensive and not worth it for the xp. You get lots of resists on yellows with your pets lifetap so chaining blues is often faster.

/gu bwgen fishermen in lyn barfog drop set of cloth armor frequently. Dunters in lyonnese drop cloth. Pelidh and then there is sladug for his bracer in lyonnesse as well.

Best tip is to keep moving for xp, just go camp to camp or in a circle in dungeon and just get new camp bonus. Go from one end of bwgen fishermen or bandit camp or whatever to another and the camp bonus really adds up.

And if ur lazy then just camp for gold.

As for ur respec at 40 if ur sure about the spec then i would run to 33 spirit and then throw points after 33 into matter. The focus shield will help you mow down multiple greens faster or a few blues or even a tough orange or something.

Also do your epic quests because they give focus staff. The 40 focus staff is like 43 in once 33 in two others and +100 hits.
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relvinian
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Postby relvinian » Jan 28, 2017 22:35

I noticed debuff is 8 seconds not 15 what threw me was some of the lower level debuffs are not 8 seconds but still show 15 seconds.

So this may change everything on a cab. You might consider just going 46 matter 28 body and 4 spirit for recycle.

No debuffs plenty of aoe farming power and the ability to leech rps in keeps and generally annoy people.
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Sorth
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Postby Sorth » Feb 04, 2017 14:32

Thanks for all the advice on farming and gear. The epics I think I'll do at 49, if I ever get there. Spec wise, as I mentioned, I'm going to do the tri-spec. If it's awful then I'll try and respec someday, but I'd like the character, again, to not be PVE-limited, and on that note, there are already tons of matter cabs running around so I think not being one when looking for an RVR group will help me a lot. On the debuffs not lasting as long as they should, if 33 spirit isn't worth it, I'd probably put more points into body instead. We'll see though.

Thanks again!
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Postby Nunki » Feb 12, 2017 16:04

If you are going to be the only caba in an 8 man group (which will be the case in most setups), I would always go for 25m/34b/33s.
This is the highest utility you can get out of 1 caba.

Spirit rest Body specs can be really nice in body DD assist groups. I know 1 sg running one right now. ;)

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Postby Excerebrose » Feb 17, 2017 16:36

TBH, I am personally going Matter in RvR - why?

I love the feeling of DoTs, I am not an elitist, never was, never will be, I know that. The guild I am in is SUPER friendly and we work around the classes/specs we got and make it work. So yes, we will loose a lot, but here is my angle to it:

For a spec to work you need to understand its strenghts and weaknesses - I know that my strength will be purple nearsight and it will be god-like on enemy healers. Why?

Its a 2 min duration, no cure, and it makes 1500 range spells have 500 range - 2000 range to have roughly 670 range.
That means for me that its not the damage I deal, its the damage taken I prevent with NSing healers to restore.
I look at it as "reversed damage" if you can even call it that?

Midgard loves them selfs some melee assist trains. Imagine how close their healers have to stand to heal them up when suddenly you have made them unintentionally overextend?

And when they get to close its a lot easier to handle/kill them.

Alb groups have most of the time always been about caster groups. Its rare to see melee train groups in albs and because of this fact I believe purple NS is super OP. Alb caster groups always steady and slowly kite backwards once a fight breaks out. Healers are normally safe behind casters.. Not so much if they have to run close due to NS.

Now for my DoTs I like to dot up the assist target, debuff with 15% body and let them do their work while i keep healers occopied with NS uptime and dots too...

So for my paperdaoc thoughts and knowing my self, this will work for my style and how I play (remember that I am no elitist and in my guild we workaround with what we have) :)

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Postby Nunki » Feb 18, 2017 21:33

Excerebrose wrote:... Now for my DoTs I like to dot up the assist target, debuff with 15% body and let them do their work while i keep healers occopied with NS uptime and dots too...

Agrred with Nearsight beeing mighty, especially the purple one!

Regarding DoTs in RvR:
Every DoT creates a time frame in which no CC (root, snare, mezz) should be applied to the target, due to the instant free resist timer granted. CC is one of the most important aspects in DAoC, therefore in every part of DAoC RvR/PvP.

NS + Root is a hilarious combination, disabling quite every casting class up to the enemies whole group movement. Not possible while DoT running.

DoT on tanks or offtanks takes any chance of peeling/snaring them while it is running.

If the target of your assist train goes down, no one will care. ;) If it survives and you need to CC him fast and change the target, this won't be possible while DoT is ticking. Direct Damage is safer in such situations (and does more damage in such short periods of time). ;)

AE Dot can be nice to leech RP's in Zerg fights, while it will weak your own realm infight and you won't overwrite any higher ae-dot. It can also help at Keep-Fights, always having an eye on your realms CC.

These are one of the reasons why no one should use DoTs in 8man -> big scale RvR. :D

Therefore the main question is, <Do I want to spec 41 matter for one RvR ability?> ;)
Nearsight got low casting time, spamming blue->yellow NS takes a blink of an eye.
More Body for Damage and Desease (especially AE-Desease)
and/or
more Spirit for higher Body-Debuff and Pet-Buffs (especially Pet-Movement )
are the No. 1 choices. ;)

Matter is amazing for PvE, while NS is OP. :D
Everybody should play what he wants and every butterfly will find a flower. ;)

Greetings

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kpax
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Postby kpax » Aug 12, 2017 14:53

anyone know if +skill in matter decrease mana costs for nearsight or skill in spirit decrease mana costs for debuff??

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Thalien
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Postby Thalien » Aug 12, 2017 18:04

You need the skill line on the level of the spell for full focus. So +skill only helps reducing costs of baseline spells above your specced level in this line.
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